American Fancy Rat & Mouse Association

This article is from the Summer I 1997 AFRMA Rat & Mouse Tales news-magazine.

Colors & Coats

Siamese Sable Mice

Q I was wondering if you know something about Siamese Sable. I had a copy of an article about them from an old AFRMA Rat & Mouse Tales, but I can’t seem to find it anywhere.

I have a couple of mouse breeding friends who “specialize” in rarer mouse varieties. They “re-create” varieties we have in the standards, but are actually never shown, from existing varieties with help from mouse (and genetics) books and with UK imported mice. For example, from a few Black Fox U.K. imports, they’ve been breeding Marten Sable, other (Silver) Fox colors, and Argente Creme mice and are now working on Silver Grey, - Brown, and - Fawn mice plus Pearls, using U.K. imported Silver Greys. When these rarer colors become “stable” they are handed over to other breeders. Their work has greatly increased the amount of varieties shown in Finland, with the benefit that newcomers do not have to bang their heads to the wall for ages before being able to get any show quality mice if they’re interested in something else than the most popular (blue, red, etc.) colors. When I first started with mice, the most popular colors were Pink-Eyed White and Black-Eyed Cream, a few Blacks, and Agoutis (who really were quite poor in color but BIG), plus me showing my Black Tan Bandeds and rather good colored but smaller Agouti mice.

Back to the point. So, some time ago I told them about Siamese Sable mice and how to “create” them. Now, as I was asked for the information again, I couldn’t find it! I need information on what varieties to combine in order to get Siamese Sable (any genetic background would also be appreciated). Satu, Finland

Siamese Sable Mouse
Siamese Sable owned and bred by Ann Quinn, Mile High Mice. Photo by Craig Robbins.

A The Siamese Sable mouse is one of the most impressive and eye catching colors (in my opinion of course) available in the mouse fancy. Unfortunately, they are not common, and are rarely shown at AFRMA shows.

Like Seal Point Siamese, Siamese Sables have points on their nose, feet, ears, and tails. Unlike Siamese however, their points are almost black. They also have a very dark body color—often almost blending with their points. AFRMA’s standard says that “The Siamese Sable is to be a very light brown similar to coffee, over the entire body. The points, which are a very dark brown, almost black, are as for Siamese. Eye color is black. Siamese Sable to be shown only in AOCP class. Faults – Mottled or uneven color on the body; body color too dark, so as to lose the contrast with the points; points not dark enough to contrast with the body color. Disqualifications – White spot on the body; white on the tail; white on the feet.”

Essentially, the Siamese Sable is simply a Seal Point Siamese with one dose of Chinchilla added. This makes them very easy to create—you get Siamese Sable first generation.

One way to do this is to breed a Seal Point Siamese to a Chinchilla mouse. This will give you Siamese Sable, but they will be mealy (“Agouti group” colors almost always ruin Siamese). If these mealy Siamese Sables are then bred together, they will produce some “non-Agouti” Siamese Sables as well as an assortment of other colors.

aaB_chch x  A_B_cchcch =   A_B_cchch
Siamese  Chinchilla  Mealy Sable Siamese
Ideally you want aaB_cchch = Sable Siamese

Another good alternative for creating Sable Siamese is to use a “black group” Fox (true Fox—Chinchilla dilute Tan). Breed the Fox (at_cchcch) to a Seal Point Siamese (aachch) and you get non Agouti Sable Siamese. Some of these should be Foxes. AFRMA considers this a disqualification, and I’ve never seen one, but I imagine they would be quite pretty.

A variation on the Sable Siamese which is well worth creating is the Blue Siamese Sable. According to the AFRMA proposed standard, “The Blue Siamese Sable is to be a medium Blue, similar to the Self Blue, over the entire body. The points, which are a dark Blue, are as for the Blue Point Siamese. Eye color is Black.”

Blue Siamese Sables are even more spectacular than the Sable Siamese. They have a rich Blue coat with deep Blue points. They are also simple to create, being the Blue dilution of Sable Siamese.

The easiest way to create these is to follow the same formula given above for the Sable Siamese. Replace either the Seal Point Siamese with a Blue Point Siamese, or the Fox with a Blue Fox. In either case the babies produced will be Sable Siamese. Breed these Sable Siamese together and you will get Blue Siamese Sables. Nichole Royer

Siamese Sable Fox

Q I have an F2 generation bunch of what I would call Siamese Sable Fox. They look identical to their parents, who were Siamese crossed with Silver Tans. They have a dark beige body with the sepia colored points, and a stark white belly, as prominent as a Fox mouse. Is this a true new color, or just a bunch of badly marked Siamese? The color is very striking, and so far, two generations are producing the exact same coloring. What would you outbreed it to to keep the coloring or enhance it so we don’t have to keep breeding related mice? Julie Turnbaugh, CO

A I suspect you have made Siamese Sable Foxes, so your name for them is perfect. No, they are not just poorly marked Siamese. AFRMA currently does not recognize any of the AOCP mice in Tan/Fox.

The Siamese Sable Foxes are simply a Siamese with a dose of Chinchilla and a dose of the Tan gene thrown in (though I am not sure where you got the Chinchilla gene from in this breeding). Because of this it should be fairly easy to outcross. The simplest solution would be to use an unrelated Siamese, Chinchilla, or Fox (non Beige). A Siamese cross should throw Siamese Sable Foxes first generation, as will a Chinchilla cross or a Fox cross. You could also use just about anything that has nice type. Keep the first generation offspring that are Tans or Foxes, and breed them together. Karen Robbins *

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Updated December 18, 2014